hi! im new here, this seems like an interesting place. i hope you can give me some advice. i have 2 furry angels, aged 6 years now, cinnamon graham and cracker jack. they are brothers.

cracker is my problem. he has always (since i got him at 6 months old) had loose stool. he goes in the litter box, makes his contribution, scratches but is careful not to get a grain of litter on top of it, then runs like hell out of the box, cuz even he knows it stinks! after that, he seems more bouncy for awhile, so i always thought it was because his belly was feeling better after getting that nastiness out of his body.

i had talked to the vet and she didnt seem to concerned, mumbled something about more fiber, but didnt help much. she said if he wasnt feeling well, i would know it from a grumbly tummy or something.... Ive been free feeding them dry Iams original for years (sorry, i thought it was a pretty good food / they are not overweight). once in awhile id try cracker on a high fiber diet (Science diet high fiber or something), but it never helped.

a few months ago, i noticed some blood in his stool (handy that he never covers it). i freaked out, then called the vet. i took some stool in and they tested it for parasites/ worms, but no suprise, they found none. Again a recommendation of a prescription high fiber diet.

not happy with that, i started to do some research and ended up reading about the raw diet. makes sense to me. Cracker does not like any kind of wet/ canned food, so i thought nature's variety was a good choice since they offer dry, canned and raw and therefore, I could transition him over slowly and give him a variety.

so i started mixing the dry into the iams and thought i saw a little improvement in the poo. its strange, but its actually half and half. half tan and watery, half dark and hard. striped poo! hes been on the dry only for a few weeks now and tonights contribution was all light colored and watery.

so now what do i do? im guessing its an allergy to something? he wont touch the canned, let alone the raw and it just kills me to starve him to force him to eat canned. he barely eats the dry natures variety. should i try NV grain free? ive been looking at digestive aids, but im not shoving a pill down his throat daily and i dont think he'll touch something like pumpkin. The world of herbs gets confusing really fast too! I wish i could find a high quality canned that he likes, but he's a carb cat and prefers a little snip of toast to a piece of chicken. if he had his way, he'd eat Wiskas or some cheap dry food. Anything with high meat content he shuns. Actually, he doesnt care about food too much in general.

Cinnamon by the way is the opposite. Loves meat! He loves the canned NV and although he wont touch the raw NV (yet), he will eat raw chicken if i give him some little pieces.

Im determined to get cracker to poop normal! Can anyone offer any advice? He's otherwise healthy and i'd like him to stay that way!

Thanks for reading, sorry this is so long!
Karen
posted by:
Karen
Cleveland
  • I went through something similar with a cat that I had. My first and largest bit of advice is find a new vet ASAP. Your vet is obviously not willing to look into it more. There is something OBVIOUSLY wrong, esp if there is blood in his stool. My cat had a vet that wrote off the problem as Irritable bowel syndrome. We changed her food but with no relief. When I moved I took her to a new vet. He took blood tests and immediately found that her liver was failing. She was 14 years old, so don't worry, yours is probably less serious. But still, you MUST find a new vet. He needs blood tests done. And if a stool sample is taken he needs something more than just looking for parasites. That's not enough.
    For now try a new food. Switch foods slowly over the course of a week, adding a bit more of the new food at every meal. Try switching to a high quality (Science Diet doesn't really qualify for this, even the prescription food). If you only want to stay with kibble, try Pinnacle, Castor and Pollus Organix or Ultramix, Wellness, or Innova Evo. I would recommend feeding wet though because he's already losing water through his stool, so getting as much water into him will help. Wellness, Pinnacle, Natural Balance, Felidae, Castor and Pollux are all great foods.

    My cat bonnie would NOT eat canned when I first got her. With patience and diligence I finally got her to eat it. Just slowly transition to it. And don't give in. If he's not going to eat it, he's not going to eat. A cat can safely go without food for a couple of days. He'll get hungry enough and will just eat it. Also you can bribe him. Add some brewer's yeast (worked on bonnie). parmesan cheese also works. Bonnie now eats it with gusto. I can also now feed her raw with no problem.

    The main thing you want to do is try and remove wheat, corn, rice and barley from his diet. All can cause allergies in cats. The only grain I allow my cats to eat is oatmeal. And even that in small amounts. You'll really need to read the ingredients lists on food. A good kibble will list the first two ingredients as a meat source. A great kibble will list three. Potatoes and sweet potatoes are ok. So are green peas. Just avoid the grains. And also avoid by-products and non-species specific meats (i.e. "animal liver" "meat"). You can also for now try avoiding beef. It can cause allergies in pets also.

    I hope this helps.
    • Thanks so much for replying. i moved recently, so the old vet is inconvenient anyhow. there is a Cat Clinic near me Im thinking of trying since they obviously specialize in cats. The stool blood is very occasional, I only have noticed it a few times. The vet and tech said this is common in cats, which I thought was strange, because I had read to the contrary on the web, which was freaking me out. Ill try the new vet, thanks.

      Just to clarify, Cracker is eating Nature's Variety dry now and has been for a few weeks. Since that isnt solving the issue, what do you think of Natures Variety Raw Instinct (Grain Free) The first few ingredients are: Chicken Meal, Chicken Fat, Tapioca, Pumpkinseeds, Salmon Meal, Alfalfa Meal. I dont see wheat, corn, rice, barley or even potatoes or oatmeal on the ingredient list. Do you think Nature's Variety is a pretty good brand? Seems like Innova Evo is usually regarded as the best though. I guess I will try something that is grain free for awhile and see if that helps. Then I will know to avoid all grains and maybe eventually I can get to a grain free canned for him since that should be even better right? Then if that doesnt work, maybe I can try fiber supplements?

      I hope your kitty with the liver trouble ended up being ok! That must have been so scary for both of you!

      Thanks for replying. I think it helped to staighten out my thinking.

      Karen

      • Cats really have no need for fiber so I wouldn't worry about adding it. Just think of what a cat will eat if it didn't have you to feed you. The only plant matter it would get would be from the contents of it's prey's stomach. And meat doesn't have fiber.

        Also, cat vets are notoriously over priced and just because they specialize in cats doesn't make them better vets.

        You're right, blood in stool is NOT, I repeat, NOT normal. Neither is frequent vomiting, which many vets also dismiss as "normal."

        Nature's Variety Raw Instinct looks pretty good. I've been thinking of giving it to my dogs. One is allergic to corn and wheat so the other one doesn't get it either.

        The most important thing is slow transition. If you go too fast you'll make the diarrhea worse until he gets used to it.

        Thanks for your thoughts on Boo Kitty. Unfortunately she only made it 3 weeks after she was finally correctly diagnosed. My old vet wasted a year and a half. If we had found out earlier something could have been done.
        • wow, sorry about boo kitty. i hope you told the old vet what happened, so next time he knows better and does the blood work ! I just informed my husband cracker is going to a vet to get blood work done this week. he said ok. :-) cross paws for me!

          bad news is i was met with a khaki colored pile of liquid in the litter box this morning. no blood though.

          good news is i picked up some innova evo both dry and canned yesterday (both grain free) and i cant believe cracker ate both! Even a few bites of the canned cold from the fridge! horray horray! the evo is more convenient for me to get and it seems to have alot of people who recommend it, so i decided to try it over the natures variety grain free. I am so psyched, I hope this helps him!

          I do try to transition him over from one dry food to the next, but he's too smart for that. He just picks out the kibbles of what he wants to eat and leaves the less desired food in the bowl. what a little snot! So he might give himself a tummy ache, but I will stick with grain free canned and dry for at least a month, until he gets used to it to see if the issue clears.

          Thanks!

          Karen and Cracker Jack


          • just to follow up... I just got back from the new vet a few hours ago and she called me with the bloodwork already. NEGATIVE on everything. No liver problem, no pancreas problem, no anything that she could see. she ran another poop test too and it was negative for other nasties also. woohoo! Im so happy!

            she thinks the lose stool is a fish allergy. I think its grain of some sort, but maybe she's right cuz Iams dry does have fish meal in it. She gave me a weeks worth of pills to give him to kill any bacteria in his system and a bag of Eukanuba vet formula that is designed for cats with digestive difficulties. I didnt really want to try it because it has fish meal and corn in it too, but she swears that cats with fish allergies do really well on it........ she said its only temporary and when we get him cleaned out, we can go on what i feel is right for him (oh, except for the raw, she nixed that idea!) so... no real cause of the occasional blood yet, im hoping its just related to the digestive difficulties, but i will keep an eye out more for sure!

            the only bad news is poor cinnamon has a light heart murmur that now i have to worry about !!!!!!

            Thanks for getting me to go. Cost a fortune, but I feel so much better!

            Karen














            • The raw thing is interesting. Vets either like it or hate it. Unfortunately, most of the literature they read on it is distributed by the large pet food manufacturers, which of course don't like it. It's competition for them. Every animal that I have known that has been on the raw diet has done superbly well. There is only one anecdotal "case study" where two cats, an elderly cat and a very young kitten who died while eating raw. They both had compromised immune systems. However, pet food manufacturers LOVE to use this as "proof" that raw diets are bad. Well, I had a cat that spent her life eating their food and she didn't fair much better. I also had another cat die due to diet related complications. I then started doing my own research. If a cat is on it's own, it will eat raw animal meat. They can't cook.
              • i just casually brought the topic up and i could tell just from the look on her face, she wasnt a proponent. I said "oh, so your not a fan of the whole raw thing huh?" and she said no because she has treated several cats with salmonella poisoning due to raw food. I thought that was odd since ive heard cats cant get/ rarely get salmonella poisoning. I let it go though because I had 50 million other questions that needed to be delt with first regarding my kids. My plan is to get them both on a high quality canned diet first, then Ill revisit it.
                • it all comes down to proper food handling.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Have you tried Slippery Elm Bark??

                    www.littlebigcat.com/index.php
                    • no, i havent. but I have heard of it for loose stool. im really trying to find out whats wrong first and treat that, not the symptoms. i think its something in his food he isnt digesting right, so I would like to ID that and eliminate that ingredient (corn or fish is suspected). Id also like to get him on canned food. If I fail at that, I will look further into slippery elm and some of the other digestive aids that ive read about. right now he's on a dry Eukanuba low ash vet formula. I hate it because it has corn in it, but the vet says I need to give it a chance to see if it clears his issues. She also put him on a week of metronidizole to clean out anything that might hanging out in his system. Thank god we finished that last night. So Im just going to give it a few weeks and see if anything changes. Really i havent been finding much at all in the litterbox from him, so that's concerning too. Always something isnt it?! Thanks for the suggestion!
                      • Yeah, if the antibiotics and prescription food aren't doing anything, you might need to talk to the vet about trying a proper food elimination trial using novel proteins, i.e. something your cat hasn't had before--IVD makes a line of prescription food for those purposes, containing venison, duck, rabbit, etc. that most cats don't encounter too often.

                        But in my experience and from the stories I've heard, cats with certain types of food sensitivities respond best to the raw diet, including the cat belonging to the woman who runs catnutrition.org: www.catnutrition.org/ibd.html
                        • great site Candy!
                          • AAAAHHH!!!! Im so aggrivated, not sure where to turn! Cracker really didnt seem to be doing well on the Low Ash Euckanuba dry the vet recommended. His poops were just a little thicker than pancake batter. Definately worse than when he used to eat Iams dry. I dont know, maybe he wasnt on it long enough, but you'd think if it was going to help I'd see some improvement right? He finished his course of Metronidazole (sp)

                            So I put out some Innova Evo (grain free) for my other kitty and Cracker started to eat it. Horray I thought since my goal is to get Cracker on grain free canned. Well, his poops got totally worse, thinner than batter, very mucusy and a little blood. It looks horrible. He didnt have a whole bunch of the canned, I know that can hurt his belly, but I figured he wasnt doing good on the Eukanuba anyhow, maybe eating something with no grains would help.... but now Ive taken the canned away since he got so bad on it.

                            I just dont know what the hell Im doing with him.

                            How long should it take for a new food to help if its going to?
                            Can anyone tell me what the mucus means? Is that just from him eating some canned?
                            How can I make his transition to canned easier? Any particular supplements that will make it better for him?
                            I keep thinking of adding more fiber since the canned is 0.5% and he's used to 3% but maybe that's not right...
                            Hubby says to just put him back on Iams to give him a break, but I dont want to quit when we've come this far!

                            I dont know what to do. Ive been getting him to drink lots of water, so he seems ok there. And he seems to feel fine, actually he's been quite active and affectionate. Should I just mix the canned slowly into the dry?

                            Appreciate any thoughts.

                            Karen and Cracker
                            • definitely mix the canned in slowly. A sudden change will make him even sicker. I'd ask your vet about Crohn's Disease and Giardia. I would say that changes would probably take about 2 weeks. What does your vet think? If your new vet isn't willing to find out what's wrong you need to find yet another one. The good ones are few and far between. You can also check out the Veterinary Medicine tribe. You can also try mixing in some goat's milk yogurt or probiotics to help his gut bacteria.
                              • oh yeah, and canned pumpkin can help with the diarrhea too.
                                • she tested for Giardia and it came back negative. Chrones didnt come up... I guess Ill give her a call back tomorrow and tell her the Eukanuba isnt working and get her opinion.

                                  Im thinking of getting some of the probiotics tomorrow. maybe mix it into the canned then slowly mix the canned into the dry. any brand in particular you know of/ like? do you think the pumkin should be in addition or one or the other?

                                  Thanks.


                                  • Karen; Sorry to hear about your kitty. I obviously don't know what could be wrong, but if it helps, I have had a similar experience with two Bengal kittens I recently acquired. When I got them home, I transitioned them from the breeder's mix of Royal Canin and Healthwise dry to Wellness dry. From the first day they were home, they both had loose stools. After one week of loose stool and diarrhea, I took them to the local cat clinic and the vet gave me a probiotic (Culturelle) and something to firm their stools (essentially montmorillonite). I took a stool sample with me and it was negative for parasites. After another week of the vet's prescriptions and the same Wellnes dry food, there was absolutely no change in their stool. I even saw blood and mucous in some their stools. Really smelly too! Completely frustrated, I took away ALL the Wellness kibble and started to give them canned Wellness Kitten food, a little at a time. By the next morning, both of them had completely normal stools -- and their stool frequency had dropped from 2-3 per day to one per day or less. I have had them on a straight canned diet of the wellness with bits of raw chicken ever since. I did try to introduce some Eagle Pack Lamb and Oatmeal dry for a few days, but as soon as I increased the amount to >1/3 cup, they both reacted with soft stools again.

                                    Makes me think that they are both sensitive or even allergic to something in the dry food, and my guess is the carbohydrate (particulary grain) content. The wellness kitten canned has less than 5% carbs in it with no grain. I am looking for a holistic vet or one that is a proponent of raw food diets for cats -- not necessarily because I'll start them on raw but because my guess is that a vet who advocates raw diets had probably educated themselves more on feline nutrition.

                                    Good luck!
                                    • ohhh!!!!! Bengal kittens! I bet you love them cuties to pieces!

                                      I called the vet today, but she wont be in until tomorrow (Tues). I ordered a supplement for him today that is a combo of probionics and digestive enzymes. Ill get it wednesday and if the vet agrees, start to work it in. I just really wish i knew if it was the corn or fish that was giving him trouble (or something else). To find a food that is grain free, fish free and he will eat (that last one being the toughest) is impossible! And switching to a canned from a dry is confusing enough to his system. I wish he liked Wellness canned, but so far no luck on putting some out for him to smell.

                                      Natures Variety has Montmorillonite in it in both canned and dry. I wish he'd eat that too, its what his kitty brother Cinnamon eats, but so far Cracker wont touch the chicken/ turkey, duck or rabbit. I want to find the venison, beef and lamb, but they dont sell them around here and they can only order me a case.

                                      Well anyway, the poo still looks bad, but he doesnt seem to be miserable and is drinking water, so ill just slowly keep working the wet in. I just cant go cold turkey with him. Im too afraid. He's 6, not a kitten, so he might not bounce back as well (plus his little bottom is red already! - dont tell him I told you, he'd slash me! ssshhh )

                                      Thanks for your story and glad to hear yours are doing better. That mucus is pretty nasty to see! Pretty scary, especially with blood mixed in! It makes me feel better yours had this too and ended up just fine!

                                      Karen and Cracker
                                      • well cracker won the battle, but not yet the war. yesterday i put him back on his dry Iams. I really didnt want to do it, but his little red butt needs a break. im hoping things firm up and then we can try working into a canned again. its just too hard on him to be trying to transition from a dry food that doesnt agree with him, to a wet one that might not. I sprinkled on digestive enzymes and probiotics also, to try to build up his system in the meantime.

                                        I spoke to the vet who was quite suprised the flagyl didnt help. she suggested a science diet z/d diet because she said the proteins are broken up really small and the body wont reject them. i really just dont like that idea. i want to solve the problem with good wholesome food his body will accept, not high science (if that makes any sense). she also mentioned steriods, which i also do not want to give him.

                                        so ill give it a few weeks with nothing but iams and see how it goes. wish me luck!
                                        • Karen,

                                          I came across this posting while researching cat diets for my sick kitty. How is the cat doing now? If still not doing well - Has Irritable Bowel Disease been ruled out? Depending on where it is in the digestive track the symptoms can vary. Yours sound like IBD in the colon. There is treatment that can be performed. Check out these web sites for information.

                                          maxshouse.com/inflammator..._disease.htm

                                          www.vin.com/VINDBPub/Sea...0/PR00427.htm
                                          • my guy gets loose stool sometimes, also nervous barfing sometimes (when he's had a run in with an evil cat or an evil human LOL!).

                                            he's always been on a combo diet of dry food and some canned (he's fussy about the canned stuff). I've found the Purina One brand kibble for sensitive systems seems to help him a lot. also, i started feeding him catnip (because it settles the tummy) and i think that helps too.

                                            just keep trying stuff until your kitty feels better.....the good food for kitty IS out there!
                                            • Blood in the stool can mean different things depending on how it looks. Is it bright red or dark? Dark is definitely a problem. Bright red can just be a sign of his irritated colon and nothing more, though there is the possibility it could be something else. When my kitty was having high constipation and on Lactulose, she occasionally had a little bright red blood in her stool and it was no big deal. Darker red blood means the bleeding is higher up in the colon and worrisome.
                                              • Unsu...
                                                 
                                                i have one word for you:

                                                PUMPKIN!

                                                and i lied, pumkin deserves a novel! so here goes!

                                                we adopted a stray from a shelter and they forgot to conveniently tell us he had digestive problems - the most horrid butt pee imaginable, yes, it stank so bad i had to open all windows in the home.
                                                he could not keep anything in, it would fly out of him, literally, right after feeding.

                                                i tried the raw diet but at first it did not work.
                                                i tried the all mean evo crunchies by innova, it at first didn't work either!
                                                then someone said pumkin...and life changed... gradually...but very effectively.
                                                it's oct. now and we got him this april, and he's got normal, perfectly formed poops!

                                                what i did was give him canned pure pumkin. about a tablespoon 3X a day when he was at his worse.
                                                he loved it and i'd be surprised if your mew did not.
                                                at the same time i gave him a bit of evo all meat organic crunchies by innova...increasing the dose each time.
                                                this was about the same time all those grain scares were going on too.
                                                this also would rule out if he had allergies to grains.

                                                butt pee subsided with the pumpkin dramatically. how do i know? well, when i didn't give it to him and gave him straight protein he'd return to his sad condition of stinking us out of the house!
                                                i then started giving him two organic raw patties (the size of a tbsp each) mixed with a tbs of pumpkin.
                                                this did the trick and regulated his guts...and he loooved the meals!
                                                about two months ago my partner bought him crunchies by innova that also contain other grains. he's done ok on these, along with an evening feeding of pumpkin and raw.

                                                i still give him pumpkin here and there by itself as a treat since he loves the stuff.

                                                try this, i'd be surprised if it didn't work.
                                                oh, and he's not allowed to eat cat grass, it would put blood in his stools. i imagine it's because the grass was sharp and would wound his delicate digestive tract on it's way out.
                                                so make sure kitty is not munching on any plants or grasses till their guts get stronger.

                                                good luck!
  • Any luck with Cracker? I've got a cat with the same issue, Shadow is almost 9 and has had loose stools since I got him at 6 months of age. Occasionally there is blood in his stools but not very often, when he goes he will stink you right out of the house and then he doesn't cover it so one of my other 3 cats will have to and they do. I've taken him to the vet and everything came back saying he's normal, I've tried different diets and foods and nothing helped so then I tried the so called "pumpkin miracle" and that was an even bigger problem, sure he loved it but it caused him to crap every where but where he was supposed to. So much for that miracle. My other 3 cats are perfectly normal and they range in ages from 4 o 13 so they have been exposed to everything that Shadow has so it is really frustrating especially when he decides against using the litter box. Any other suggestions out there?
    • Our cat loved eating the Iams pouch food as a kitten. Her poops were terrible - they smelled up the whole house! Finally I started doing some research. I put her on a raw diet and she was better instantly. Then we had to board her when we went out of town and the vet did not like raw food. We found Inova Evo, and it works just as well for her. Recently I read that you should switch cats diets every so often. We tried Wellness and that seems okay too. It seems to work for her if she has food with no grains at all. Every once in awhile she will still have a loose stool but rarely.

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