I did a lot of reading a while back on how the acid/base (base = alkali) balance works in our bodies because I was interested in why certain foods acidify the body while others make the body more alkaline, and how all of that relates to a cat's urine pH. There's also a whole lot of misinformation out there about what foods will promote urinary tract health in cats, and terms are often confusing and/or imprecise, which means people end up using the terminology wrongly, which adds further to the confusion. I'm hoping that this post will clarify a lot of things. Much of this post will be familiar to those of you who have read most of my posts in Cat People, Cat Lovers and Feline Nutrition, but I think summarizing everything in one location is a worthwhile endeavor. I'm going to break this into different posts for readability reasons (and so I can post the information in discrete bits instead taking the time to write one huge mega-post), with each post covering major topics.
First of all, some definitions:
FLUTD: Feline lower urinary tract disease. This catch-all term basically covers ALL types of diseases and disorders affecting the feline lower urinary tract (i.e. the bladder and urethra). Contrary to popular perception, the majority of FLUTD is *idiopathic*, which basically means "Hell if we know what's going on." The bladder/urethra is inflamed, the cat is in discomfort and other symptoms may be present, e.g. hematuria (bloody urine) or dysuria (difficulty urinating) but no underlying cause can be found. Of those cats who have FLUTD, about 15-20% will have urinary crystals, about 5%-10% will have some kind of anatomic deformity (an unusually narrow urethra, for example), about 1% will have an actual infection, and about 1% will have something really, really nasty like cancer. FLUTD affects about 1% of the total domestic feline population, though in my opinion this number may be low because the primary symptom of FLUTD is inappropriate peeing, which most people assume is behavioral and treat it as such instead of having a pee sample analyzed.
Cystitis: the dictionary definition for this is "inflammation of the urinary bladder," and this term is often used synonymously with FLUTD.
FUS: Feline urological syndrome. Initially defined as "the feline disease syndrome characterized by dysuria, urethral obstruction, urolithiasis [see below] and hematuria", researchers quickly found that most cases of lower urinary tract disorders in cats didn't involve urolithiasis, and this term was eventually abandoned in favor of the more general FLUTD.
UTI: Urinary tract infection. Most people use this term to describe FLUTD, but actual urinary tract infections are very rare in cats (if you do the math, if about 1% of all FLUTD cases are actual infections and FLUTD affects only 1% of all cats, only 1 in 10,000 cats will experience an actual UTI). Most cases of FLUTD are sterile. The hances of a cat having a UTI are slightly elevated if it has urinary crystals because the accompanying abrasion/inflammation makes it easier for infection to set in. For this reason, many vets like to prescribe antibiotics "just in case" infection develops, but I talked to a vet about just this issue and he said that according to the studies he's encountered, prophylactic antibiotic usage is rarely useful for cats with urinary crystals. The sterile nature of FLUTD, even when struvite crystals are present, is in direct contrast to what causes urinary tract problems in dogs, which are frequently caused by bacterial infections.
Dysuria: Painful urination
Strangury (Stranguria): Wherein the cat painfully makes little dots of pee in the litterbox, either because of muscle contractions or because the urethra has been partially blocked by uroliths
Hematuria: Bloody urine
Pollakiuria (sometimes used synonymously with Polyuria): Urinating with abnormally high frequency
Urolith: Essentially, calculus (a compound consisting of minerals and organic material) found in the urinary tract
(Feline) Urolithiasis: Fancy term for "peeing crystals"
Struvite crystals: A type of of urolith consisting of magnesium, ammonium and phosphate crystals. Often known as MAP uroliths by fancy-dancy vet types. Struvite crystals form in alkaline urine, and are generally very responsive to dietary therapy, i.e. if you make a cat's urine pH more acidic than 6.5, the crystals [assuming they're not too big, as a crystal's solubility depends on its size] will generally dissolve. They were once by far the most common type of urolith found in cats, but they're now just about as common as....
Calcium oxalate crystals: a type of urolith consisting of , uh, calcium oxalate, also commonly abbreviated as CaOx. CaOx forms in acidic urine, unlike struvite crystals, and are not particularly responsive to dietary therapy. If you have a cat with CaOx problems, surgery is the only way to remove the uroliths. CaOx hits older cats (which makes sense, since older cats are more prone to metabolic acidosis, which in turn strips calcium from their bones, thus making the saturation of calcium salts in the pee more likely). Genetics can also predispose a cat to CaOx formation, because Persians and their outcrosses (like Himalayans) are more likely to suffer from these crystals than the general population of kitty cats.
First of all, some definitions:
FLUTD: Feline lower urinary tract disease. This catch-all term basically covers ALL types of diseases and disorders affecting the feline lower urinary tract (i.e. the bladder and urethra). Contrary to popular perception, the majority of FLUTD is *idiopathic*, which basically means "Hell if we know what's going on." The bladder/urethra is inflamed, the cat is in discomfort and other symptoms may be present, e.g. hematuria (bloody urine) or dysuria (difficulty urinating) but no underlying cause can be found. Of those cats who have FLUTD, about 15-20% will have urinary crystals, about 5%-10% will have some kind of anatomic deformity (an unusually narrow urethra, for example), about 1% will have an actual infection, and about 1% will have something really, really nasty like cancer. FLUTD affects about 1% of the total domestic feline population, though in my opinion this number may be low because the primary symptom of FLUTD is inappropriate peeing, which most people assume is behavioral and treat it as such instead of having a pee sample analyzed.
Cystitis: the dictionary definition for this is "inflammation of the urinary bladder," and this term is often used synonymously with FLUTD.
FUS: Feline urological syndrome. Initially defined as "the feline disease syndrome characterized by dysuria, urethral obstruction, urolithiasis [see below] and hematuria", researchers quickly found that most cases of lower urinary tract disorders in cats didn't involve urolithiasis, and this term was eventually abandoned in favor of the more general FLUTD.
UTI: Urinary tract infection. Most people use this term to describe FLUTD, but actual urinary tract infections are very rare in cats (if you do the math, if about 1% of all FLUTD cases are actual infections and FLUTD affects only 1% of all cats, only 1 in 10,000 cats will experience an actual UTI). Most cases of FLUTD are sterile. The hances of a cat having a UTI are slightly elevated if it has urinary crystals because the accompanying abrasion/inflammation makes it easier for infection to set in. For this reason, many vets like to prescribe antibiotics "just in case" infection develops, but I talked to a vet about just this issue and he said that according to the studies he's encountered, prophylactic antibiotic usage is rarely useful for cats with urinary crystals. The sterile nature of FLUTD, even when struvite crystals are present, is in direct contrast to what causes urinary tract problems in dogs, which are frequently caused by bacterial infections.
Dysuria: Painful urination
Strangury (Stranguria): Wherein the cat painfully makes little dots of pee in the litterbox, either because of muscle contractions or because the urethra has been partially blocked by uroliths
Hematuria: Bloody urine
Pollakiuria (sometimes used synonymously with Polyuria): Urinating with abnormally high frequency
Urolith: Essentially, calculus (a compound consisting of minerals and organic material) found in the urinary tract
(Feline) Urolithiasis: Fancy term for "peeing crystals"
Struvite crystals: A type of of urolith consisting of magnesium, ammonium and phosphate crystals. Often known as MAP uroliths by fancy-dancy vet types. Struvite crystals form in alkaline urine, and are generally very responsive to dietary therapy, i.e. if you make a cat's urine pH more acidic than 6.5, the crystals [assuming they're not too big, as a crystal's solubility depends on its size] will generally dissolve. They were once by far the most common type of urolith found in cats, but they're now just about as common as....
Calcium oxalate crystals: a type of urolith consisting of , uh, calcium oxalate, also commonly abbreviated as CaOx. CaOx forms in acidic urine, unlike struvite crystals, and are not particularly responsive to dietary therapy. If you have a cat with CaOx problems, surgery is the only way to remove the uroliths. CaOx hits older cats (which makes sense, since older cats are more prone to metabolic acidosis, which in turn strips calcium from their bones, thus making the saturation of calcium salts in the pee more likely). Genetics can also predispose a cat to CaOx formation, because Persians and their outcrosses (like Himalayans) are more likely to suffer from these crystals than the general population of kitty cats.
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Re: A primer on urinary tract health in cats
Thu, February 3, 2005 - 12:21 PMAnd now on to the burning (har har) question: what causes FLUTD?
Short answer: nobody really knows for sure, though several different risk factors have been identified.
Long (REALLY long) answer: For a long time, researchers concentrated on eliminating struvite urolithiasis, and based on their results, they suspected excess magnesium in cat food and food that predisposed cats to form alkaline urine (more on what makes urine acid or alkaline later) were the primary culprits. And sure enough, reducing the amount of magnesium in the food and adding urinary acidifiers helped manage the problem. Unexpectedly, though, the number of cats with calcium oxalate uroliths started increasing, until they're now as common (if not slightly more common) as struvite. This makes sense for various reasons:
- Magnesium inhibits the formation of CaOx uroliths. Cutting down on the amount of magnesium in the food meant there were fewer CaOx inihibitors.
- CaOx forms in acidic urine.
- Most cats with urolith problems eat significant amounts of dry food. Because cats evolved as desert animals and are used to deriving much of their water from their food (which is typically 60-75% moisture), their thirst instinct is pretty shitty. As a consequence, cats eating only dry food will receive only 50% of the total water compared to cats eating only canned food (assuming both types of food contain the same number of calories). Drinking insufficient water means that the urine tends to be more concentrated. And if you remember your high school science classes, less water means it takes much less solute to achieve the saturation point and form precipitate. (If you remember the rest of your science class, you'll remember that heat, agitation and pH can also affect solubility and therefore saturation.) In plain terms: more concentrated pee = higher likelihood of urolith saturation = higher likelihood of urolith precipitation and formation. This simple fact has led to increased water intake being a cornerstone therapy for urolithiasis for just about every species out there, including people. Unfortunately, "prescription" diets for cats with urinary crystals are available in dry form, and vets often don't discuss the importance of switching a cat with urolith problems to a diet high in moisture, they just hand over the bag of s/d or c/d kibble and say "Here ya go, feed this to the cat for the rest of its life." But then the restricted magnesium content, the acidifying ingredients and concentrated pee now means it's easier for cats to form CaOx stones.
And then other researchers pointed out: hey, most cases (about 70%) of FLUTD don't even have any kind of apparent cause. WTF? What are the predisposing factors for those cases?
Interestingly enough, just as in cases of urolithiasis, the major risk factor seems to be dry food. One study found that cats with idiopathic FLUTD were about three times more likely to consume only dry food compared with the general cat population. Another study found that cats with idiopathic FLUTD treated with prescription acidifying formulas responded well, but the recurrence rate for those on dry food was about 3 times that of those on canned food. Researchers aren't quite sure why, but they speculate it has something to do with solute load.
In summary: Water. It's good for your cat's pee hole.
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Re: A primer on urinary tract health in cats
Thu, February 3, 2005 - 4:26 PMAnother question people often ask is: what foods and food supplements effectively acidify a cat's urine?
This question involves a really tricky subject, i.e. the acid/base balance of a living organism's body. This is a pretty complicated subject and I only understand the very basics of what's involved, so understand that you're only going to get the most basic of the basics. The acid/base balance can be affected by many things, but the two biggies essentially involve breathing and food intake. Breathing produces alkaline by-products, which may very well be why some cats who are prone to uroliths have "attacks" when they're stressed out (stress = hyperventilation = alkaline by-products in body = alkaline urine). And foods can have either have an acidifying or alkalinizing effect on the body (and therefore the urine).
First of all, it's important to distinguish between the pH of the food itself, and the effect the food will have on the body's pH after it's been digested. You *cannot* predict the effect a certain food will have on the body's pH based solely on the food's actual pH. Feeling a bit confused? I like to use lemons as an example. Lemons are intensely acidic, and most of us know this. But eating lemons or drinking lemon juice will not result in a more acidic urine pH--on the contrary, lemons have a strongly alkalizing effect on the body when ingested. Why? Because lemons (and just about every fruit and vegetable you can think of) are a significant source of dietary bicarbonates, which have an alkalizing effect. With vinegar, it's the same thing: vinegar is essentially acetic acid, but when ingested, it alkalizes the body because it produces alkaline by-products after the body breaks it down. Now meat, on the other hand, produces various acidic by-products (mostly phosphate and sulfate anions) when digested, so they have a net alkalizing effect on the body. But if you check the pH of meat itself, it's pretty close to neutral--it's certainly nowhere close to being as acidic as a lemon, or vinegar.
Now on to three very popular "natural" supplements that are touted as urinary acidifiers: cranberries, blueberries and dl-methionine (an amino acid). Out of these three, only one actually acidifies urine. And if you remember my comment about how fruits and vegetables almost always have a net alkalizing effect, you'll probably have guessed that dl-methionine is an actual urine acidifier and while cranberries and blueberries more likely than not will actually alkalize the urine.
And frankly, the popularity of cranberries and blueberries as urinary tract supplements stems from their use to treat *human* urinary tract disorders--specifically, urinary tract infections. Cranberries and blueberries basically contain a compound that interferes with the bacteria's ability to adhere themselves to the bladder walls. And once again, feline UTIs are extremely rare, so giving Kitteh a shitload of of cranberries to help treat struvite crystals will not only be futile since there's a very good chance that the FLUTD is sterile, but it'll very likely be counter-productive because if anything it'll make the urine more alkaline.
Dl-methionine, on the other hand, actually DOES acidify the urine because it's a sulfur-containing amino acid, which then breaks down to sulfate groups that acidify the urine. You can get it in any decent grocery store at the vitamin aisle, where all the other amino acids (like taurine or lysine) are stocked. Vets dispense a type of gel called Methigel that's basically dl-methionine in gel form. Giving an adult cat up to 1500 mg dl-methionine a day is probably safe (depending on the size of the cat), BUT be careful with this shit and consult with the vet before starting methionine therapy because an overdose can cause Heinz body anemia (the same kind of anemia caused by onions). Researchers found that doses of 1000 mg/kg bodyweight/day (which amounts to about 4500 mg per day for a 4.5 kg cat, which is equivalent to about 10 lbs.) caused severe Heinz body anemia, while 500 mg/kg bodyweight/day caused moderate anemia that corrected itself after a month, indicating that the cats probably adjusted to those levels of dl-methionine in their diet.
Is acidifying the urine using dietary supplements an appropriate therapy for every cat? Absolutely not. Cats with kidney disease are pretty prone to metabolic acidosis, so acidifying their systems even further is a really shitty idea. Older cats are also more prone to metabolic acidosis, so feeding them foods containing urine acidifiers should be approached with extreme caution and with vet supervision.
The best approach to treating cats with chronic FLUTD problems who are otherwise young-ish and healthy is to ensure that the water intake is adequate (i.e. feed foods high in moisture), feed foods that are high in meat proteins (meat being a pretty efficient urine acidifier with none of the drawbacks of dl-methionine therapy), minimize the amount of carbohydrates in the diet (new research coming out shows that starches seem to encourage struvite crystal formation), make sure the diet is balanced if you're feeding home-made food, and feed as many small meals at regularly-spaced intervals as you can manage. Minimizing stress (remember, stress as perceived by the cat can be very different from stress as perceived by us) for those cats who have crystal attacks after a freak-out is also very important. Resort to dl-methionine only when these other approaches fail, and only with veterinary supervision. -
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Re: A primer on urinary tract health in cats
Thu, February 3, 2005 - 4:35 PMI need to correct this statement:
"Now meat, on the other hand, produces various acidic by-products (mostly phosphate and sulfate anions) when digested, so they have a net **acidifying** effect on the body."
Let's see how many other retarded typos I made while creating this thread, ha!
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Re: A primer on urinary tract health in cats
Wed, May 23, 2007 - 5:55 PMI also replied to the Raw diet thread, but this one is actually more suitable to my issue. Monday I found out my kitty had bladder stones. She had surgery yesterday and is doing very well. However, I do not want to put her on the "prescription" food. Most of her life I have followed the raw cat food recipe in Anita Frazier's book (can't remember the name right now & it's downstairs), but for a short period last year I was feeding her dry food...yes a vet was involved. Anyway, they think they are calcium oxalate stones, but analysis will prove it, eventually. Anyway, I'm trying to find a source for a raw diet recipe to help, as much as possible, recurrence of these little nasties. Any suggestions??
Thanks,
Kathy
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Re: A primer on urinary tract health in cats
Thu, August 16, 2007 - 11:06 PMbump
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Re: A primer on urinary tract health in cats
Thu, February 3, 2005 - 4:28 PMAnother myth that's been propagated in holistic health circles that I want to address is the myth of the post-prandial alkaline tide. Holistic pet health heroes like Richard Pitcairn, Anitra Frazier and Kymythy Schulze have advocated feeding infrequent but large meals to cats, with enforced fasts in between. Schulze's reasons for advocating this are different from Pitcairn and Frazier's, which seem to be partly based on the fact that a cat's urine pH rises after a meal. This is known as the post-prandial alkaline tide.
What the two of them completely missed were these four simple facts:
- The alkaline tide happens 3-6 hours after a meal, not directly after eating food.
- The bigger the meal, the bigger the alkaline tide.
- Cats who eat several small meals a day have a more acidic pH on the average than cats fed only one or two big meals.
- Small felids eat up to 20 small meals a day in the wild. Given how big the average mousie, cricket or small songbird is, this makes sense.
The above information was culled mostly from Small Animal Clinical Nutrition, 4th ed. The textbook actually has a handy-dandy little chart showing the little peaks and valleys of cats who eat several small meals vs. the gigantic spike for those who eat only a few big ones (the ones who eat small meals peak at about pH 6.5, while those who eat big meals peak at about 7.0). I'll scan it in tonight and post it in the gallery.
Pitcairn and Frazier do a lot of fearmongering regarding this dreaded alkaline tide. According to them, the cat only needs to SMELL the food and the poor dear's urine pH will spike through the roof. This claim makes no sense whatsoever, because one can only imagine that a wildcat living in its natural environment and surrounded by small, scurrying critters that are all potential meals-on-wheels (so to speak) would have perpetually alkaline urine pH, when it couldn't be further from the truth. Cats who hunt and eat a "natural" diet, i.e. several meals consisting of small, whole prey, tend to have urine pH ranging from about 5.9 to 6.4.
Now I'm not saying "you must feed your cats 10 to 20 meals a day!" if you happen to feed home-made food or canned food. Most cats do fine on two meals a day. I feed mine two meals a day, three if I'm feeling sassy. Ideally, though, if you could, feed them as many small meals as you can manage on your schedule, and if your cat has FLUTD, doing this is even more important to avoid the large alkaline spike 3-6 hours after the meal. You can use one of those timed feeders with ice-packs on the bottom meant to dispense canned food; they'll work equally well for canned food and for home-made. I wish I could use one of those, but Eric the Asshead's ongoing food issues basically guarantees I'll end up with a very fat cat and a very skinny cat if I go with this approach.
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Re: A primer on urinary tract health in cats
Thu, February 3, 2005 - 4:32 PMHere are the studies I referred to while writing the above posts. Feel free to read them for yourself so you can determine if I'm full of shit or not. Pity I can't use HTML in this post, because I could've linked to these studies as I wrote about them and it didn't occur to me to use numbers to annotate the references, DOH!
Feline Reference Values for Urine Composition: www.nutrition.org/cgi/conte...32/6/1754S
Clinical evaluation of cats with nonobstructive urinary tract diseases: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi
Clinical evaluation of commercially available urinary acidification diets in the management of idiopathic cystitis in cats: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi
Evaluation of effects of dietary carbohydrate on formation of struvite crystals in urine and macromineral balance in clinically normal cats: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi
Methionine toxicosis in cats: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi
The Effect of Diet on Lower Urinary Tract Diseases in Cats: www.nutrition.org/cgi/conte...8/12/2753S
Association between patient-related factors and risk of calcium oxalate and magnesium ammonium phosphate urolithiasis in cats: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi
Feline urethral plugs and bladder uroliths: A review of 5484 submissions 1998–2003: www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/artic...r.fcgi
If you need any clarification or if you have any questions, please feel free to pipe up. 'Cause otherwise this is A PARTY OF ONE, BABY. WOO! -
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Re: A primer on urinary tract health in cats
Sat, December 30, 2006 - 1:57 AMBump. Love the info here, and pimp it up whenever I hear of someone whose cat has urinary tract issues.
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Re: A primer on urinary tract health in cats
Sun, February 6, 2005 - 10:15 PMWhatever.
The "uti" ( or whatever it's called) food is helping the younger cat ( my cat) but the older one is having some problems. He's not my cat so I have to be "nice" when I approach his owner with my concerns.
I think that obesity is a major thing here. Why feed your pets your food when they could be perfectly alright with their own food? Cats learn to beg.
Anyway, the older tabby has an abcess that is as large as my nose growing on his hind quarters. He's a nice cat. The owner doesn't want to spend the money on a vet. I disagree. There's too much that can go wrong if we lance the abcess at home. What to do... -
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Re: A primer on urinary tract health in cats
Mon, February 7, 2005 - 12:43 PM"Whatever."
Hahahaha, your defensiveness is pretty funny ebcause this thread wasn't directed at you. What inspired me to write it was a friend of mine whose cat is having urinary tract problems. And she was using a bunch of "holistic" remedies which were doing shit-all to help, and she kept using the term UTI, so I provided some information to her about FLUTD, and then I thought hey, why not start a thread on this, it would help clarify a topic that a lot of people obviously find somewhat confusing.
But again: why are you feeding urinary tract food to a cat with hairballs? Very puzzling. Also, could you please let me know what brand UTI food you're feeding right now?
"I think that obesity is a major thing here. Why feed your pets your food when they could be perfectly alright with their own food? Cats learn to beg."
What does this have to do with the issue at hand, i.e. hairballs and/or FLUTD? I agree that feeding cats the highly-seasoned, cooked foods we enjoy isn't a healthy option (a balanced home-made raw diet is another entirely, of course), but then I don't think feeding dry cat food is the healthiest either--this applies double for a cat with FLUTD.
"The owner doesn't want to spend the money on a vet."
This cat needs veterinary attention. Can you contact the local Humane Society/ASPCA for help?
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Re: A primer on urinary tract health in cats
Tue, February 8, 2005 - 9:27 AMThis is aweful - the owner should be more responsible.
Poor tabbycat - it's tantamount to cruelty.
Why have a cat if you can't look after it?
Why own animals if you don't care for them? I never understand this.
The only thing you probably can do is call an animal charity for help as suggested, or talk to the owner so strongly yet reasonably that they are made to feel responsible.
Meka
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Re: A primer on urinary tract health in cats
Tue, March 1, 2005 - 3:32 PMSomebody in Cat People claimed that excess protein can cause kidney stones in cats. I was pretty sure this wasn't true, and a pretty thorough search through PubMed didn't yield anything indicating that this was true. (Some search terms I used were "nephrolith protein cats", "kidney stones cats", "protein calculi cats" and "protein urolith cats.") What I did find, however, was the following abstract:
Effects of a high-protein diet versus dietary supplementation with ammonium chloride on struvite crystal formation in urine of clinically normal cats: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi
"CONCLUSIONS AND CLINICAL RELEVANCE: Our results indicate that compared with dietary supplementation with NH4Cl, the high-protein diet is preferable as a urine acidifier for the prevention of struvite crystal formation in clinically normal cats."
One species of animal for whom a diet containing excess protein CAN cause kidney stones as well as other types of urinary calculi is the dalmatian. A quirk in their metabolism means they can't break down purines very efficiently, which can result in urate uroliths. And even then it's not necessarily foods that are high-protein that are problematic, but foods high in purines (high-protein does not necessarily equate to high-purine). But I'm not a dog person, and this is about as much as I know about urate uroliths in dogs, ha. -
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Re: A primer on urinary tract health in cats
Tue, March 1, 2005 - 3:37 PMmakes sense for dalmations since they are so inbred and probably some of the stupidest dogs I've ever seen.
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Re: A primer on urinary tract health in cats
Fri, August 18, 2006 - 10:05 AMBump, I think this is a good thread about dry food and FLUTD
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Re: A primer on urinary tract health in cats
Fri, August 18, 2006 - 8:48 PMOh my dear, That Woman Sez, thank you so, so much for this research. You confirm for me that I have been right in sticking to the canned food for my cat with struvite crystal issues - in my case it is is the vet techs who are trying to sell me on the dry food, supposedly to benefit the teeth. I just put them off and say I'll think about it. I do give my Harvey mostly canned food, sometimes with some more filtered water added to ensure he gets enough water, and sometimes with a few crunchies to give variety. One bit that was an eye-opener for me, was about the breathing connection. Harvey sometimes has a time of purring so loud and with a lot of heavy breathing that it almost sounds asthmatic. I will have to give a lot of thought to the question of what might cause him stress, and what can be done about it. I look forward to finding some changes to make in his life, that will help him stay healthier - and I have you to thank for pointing me in the direction to investigate. Thank you again. -
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Re: A primer on urinary tract health in cats
Tue, August 29, 2006 - 2:40 PMwhat a great thread! i was just looking for some info on this as our cat is now 20ish (give and take a few, we have no exact bday)
thank you that woman! -
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Re: A primer on urinary tract health in cats
Wed, August 30, 2006 - 12:41 AMI know - she's awesome isn't she (that woman)...
thanks to her I can put petstore owners in their place, and talk on the same level as pet food reps....
it's a whole new world I didn't know I was missing
more importantly, my kitties eat better than most pussies in the USA...
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Re: A primer on urinary tract health in cats
Fri, September 22, 2006 - 7:49 AMWonderful article; I love the straight-talk! Wind, just wanted to let you know you're doing the right thing standing up to the vet techs pushing dry food cause it "cleans the teeth." That's like a human saying that eating potato chips cleans his teeth! Just cause it's crunchy doesn't mean it scrapes off tartar! -
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Re: A primer on urinary tract health in cats
Wed, February 7, 2007 - 12:36 AMMy ex-bf has a diabetic cat, who requires 2 insulin shots daily. It took over 2 years to figure out his insulin levels, and after going thru several vets, we finally found one with enough education and experience to help us stabilize his blood sugar.
Cats need wet food possibly more than dry food. And it should be a high-quality, high-protein one, not made from dead or diseased animals, not with grains as some of the first couple of ingredients. We changed all our cats to wet with some dry food, as much to control their weight in old age as to ward off diabetes if possible. The diabetic cat is a chubby guy, having eaten junk food like 9 Lives for most of the 13 years before he got diabetes. :-(
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Re: A primer on urinary tract health in cats
Wed, March 21, 2007 - 6:50 PMTime for another bump, I think.
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Re: A primer on urinary tract health in cats
Mon, April 16, 2007 - 6:00 PMI really appreciate all the info on urinary tract health. One of my girls, a now 9 month old kitten, has had issues with struvite stones since she was about 6 months old. She was put on Hill's S/D which helped desolve the stones and then she was put on C/D. My vet knows with my cattery situation it isn't exactly the easiest thing to put everyone on a script diet. Previous to this kitten breaking with these stone she was confirmed to have bacteria in her urine. So it was said to bacterial. We totally switched to a more holistic diet of Wellness. I am feeding the Complete Care (blue bag) and noticed they now have CORE. I am curious if a higher protien diet would help her struvite stone issue. Keep in mind that I cannot for the life of me get this girl to eat wet food which would obviously solve all our problems. I feed Nature's Variety Frozen Raw mixed with Instinctive Choice wet in the evening in hopes that this girl will see the others eating the wet and show some interest...no luck. I have put dry on top of wet...no luck, I have wet down her dry...no luck...basically all efforts to get her to eat wet have ended with her barrying it. What can I do? Wet is the big solution here but that is failing misserably...that is why I am asking if CORE (50% protien) is a better option. I have read so much on all of this my head is swimming with information that I can't seem to sort out. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
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Re: A primer on urinary tract health in cats
Mon, April 16, 2007 - 6:03 PMPlease note we have done antibiotics at each outbreak. This is her third go round with these stones...blood in urine the whole nine yards. Saturday I caught her peeing on a towel used to wipe the dogs feet when they come in from outside. Where she had peed was full of little grains of what looked like sand. Poor girl...the C/D isn't working for her anymore.
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Re: A primer on urinary tract health in cats
Mon, April 16, 2007 - 7:51 PMI have a cat, Bonnie, who I couldn't, for the life of me get to eat canned....at first. What worked for me was mixing a little bit of canned into the kibble. Maybe 10% being canned and then adding some brewer's yeast. I also found that she was more willing to eat it off of my finger than straight out of her dish. Once she started eating that with no issue, I would slightly increase the amount of wet. I would continue this until it was finally all wet. Now she eats it. She still prefers kibble, but I try to limit that. There was a thread a while back about Bonnie not eating canned and advice on things to try. Here it is: catfood.tribe.net/thread/53...2a383794f7
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Re: A primer on urinary tract health in cats
Sat, September 29, 2007 - 10:12 AMThis is such great info, i've got 2 2 year old cats and since I've had them I've been researching food. My big boy Angus had FLUTD last Oct and I grudgingly agreed to put him on the s/d. After 2 bags I couldn't do it anymore, his skin and coat was awful and he was gaining weight, so I switched him to a holistic brand that had similar mineral content as the c/d. This spring I switched both my babies to Orijen, a grain free, meat derived protein kibble (they always get wet food as well). Angus hasn't had any urinary issues at all this past year. He went last week for his check up and vaccinations and the vet was wondering why I didn't still have him on the Hill's. I had to defend my choice to not feed him that crap, which led me here. I am taking him back in this week as she would like to do a urinalysis to see if everything is OK in his whizzer. So I'm in the process of arming myself with all sorts of info I can talk with her about and hopefully can make her think about the food she hocks in her office. Anyways, just wanted to say thanks for doing all this research, it has saved me alot of time :D . -
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Re: A primer on urinary tract health in cats
Sat, September 29, 2007 - 10:48 AMI wish you all the luck in the world. Unfortunately the text books that vets use in school on nutrition are written by Hill's and the nutrition professors are reps from the large pet food manufacturers. Not to mention that vets that sell Hill's (or any specific brand) in their office get a kickback.
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Re: A primer on urinary tract health in cats
Sat, September 29, 2007 - 5:44 PMthanks for the info re: Orijen...i'll have to research where i can get it locally.
i've never given my guy vet hocked food (not that i'm giving him the best organic food either, he turns up his nose at that...but we're working on it) though he does get wet and dry food, so the Orijen would be good to exchange his dry for. My friends who buy the vet hocked foods seem to actually have more health problems with their cats....which got me to wondering until i saw y our post and then i realized i needed to wonder no more.... -
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Re: A primer on urinary tract health in cats
Sun, September 30, 2007 - 4:55 PMOrijen can be found in most higher end pet food stores. If you're in Canada, it's easier to find, as it's made by Champion Pet Food, a Canadian company. But I do know that they're selling in some US states. I know of people in the US that have it shipped to them. Most Global Pet Food stores sell it, as well as Ren's Pets Depot, and Bark and Fitz. It's a really great food, worth the trouble to get it IMO. www.orijen.ca/orijen/about/
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Re: A primer on urinary tract health in cats
Fri, December 21, 2007 - 6:05 AMMy first post. Just found you this morning after reading my brains out yesterday. Of course confused as hell about what to feed my cat "now".
We got our 12 year old Mac back yesterday from three nights in the hospital (at my vet's house) after being blocked with the alkaline crystals that start with an S. He had a catheter. He is also on antibiotics which I would never take. Don't like the idea.
Vet said he had to go on Hills C/D which I now read is total crap. We had been feeding Organix drys which of course we thought was great.
I ran up yesterday and bought some Wellness wet cans and one can of Solid Gold tuna. He used to get a little tuna now and then and Mac loves tuna.
So I gave him and our other cat Sam some tuna last night and they both loved it...especially Mac after three nights in the hospital.
The question is how do I proceed now. Get rid of dry immediately. Canned and raw combination. Never tried raw. Money is not an issue for these guys. But I don't want to stress them. Also they both could lose a couple of pounds. They are both indoor cats and have never had any health problems.
Are all vets (like doctors) totally in the dark about nutrition and what causes what? My vet, very, very sharp guy (mobile vet) was like...feed them this forever and you will have no problems.
I just ordered "Your Cat: Simple New Secrets to a Longer, Stronger Life" Elizabeth M. Hodgkins and should have it today.
Need help on what to do now.
Thanks for the great information.
Richard -
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Re: A primer on urinary tract health in cats
Tue, December 25, 2007 - 12:09 AMBest of luck with making the changes you need to with their diets. One thing I learned from this article that a year's worth of discussion and asking questions of three different veterinarians did not get me, was the information that the real treatment for crystals in the urinary tract, is water. When I saw that, I started adding 2-3 tbs of water to each meal of canned food for my 9 year old cat with FLUTD. It gave me the courage to get away from "prescription" foods with nightmarish ingredients labels, and start feeding my cats food so high in quality that none of their foods were in the massive wave of recalls earlier this year. I was able to be confident that I should put down any food that has ingredients that make me say, "Why in blazes would I want to feed THAT to my cat?".
As for your statement,"Are all vets (like doctors) totally in the dark about nutrition and what causes what? My vet, very, very sharp guy (mobile vet) was like...feed them this forever and you will have no problems." Most of them are in the dark - put there deliberately by the instructors of their nutrition classes in veterinary school. Those nutrition classes are sponsored by Hills or Iams. Then they graduate, get into practice, and are further brainwashed into pushing Hills Science Diet by the profits to be made by selling those foods.
The key to a smooth transition when changing foods, is to do it gradually. The first time adding a new food, make the dish about 1/4 new food, and 3/4 old food. Add a little bit more each time. It should take about a week. Watch for digestive upsets, and if need be, go back a step or two in the process, to allow the cats' systems a chance to get used to the new stuff.
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