Right, so there are so many different things you can do with the raw diet that I'm creating a thread for all the recipes I know. Yeah, hold on to yer panties. Woo! At any rate, a separate thread just for recipes will be nice and easy to keep track of. Rotate between the various recipes for variety.
For a lot of babbling about the theory/principles behind the different ingredients, check out the Ideal Diet thread here: www.tribe.net/tribe/servl...iewThread.vm
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Recipe no. 1:
Meat:
2 lbs. raw ground meat, dark meat preferred--turkey thigh, lamb and pork are good because they're high in fat and taurine
1/4 lb. finely-chopped liver--be careful with beef liver because it is notorious for making cats barf, might be because it's too rich
1/2 lb. finely-chopped heart--if heart is unavailable, substitute 1/2 lb. meat and use 250 mg more taurine per serving
Calcium:
1-1/2 teaspoons ground eggshell
OR
6 tablespoons bone meal
OR
3000 mg calcium supplement
OR
3 lbs. ground chicken necks/backs
Veggies:
8 oz. bag of mixed baby greens or squash or combination, preferably organic, blenderized to a pulp
Supplements (qty. per cat per day day EXCEPT for vit. E):
1/4 teaspoon kelp/dulse powder OR 1/4 teaspoon nutritional yeast
250 mg taurine
1000 mg Salmon oil OR 1/2 teaspoon plant EFA
400 IU vitamin E per cat once a week
For a lot of babbling about the theory/principles behind the different ingredients, check out the Ideal Diet thread here: www.tribe.net/tribe/servl...iewThread.vm
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Recipe no. 1:
Meat:
2 lbs. raw ground meat, dark meat preferred--turkey thigh, lamb and pork are good because they're high in fat and taurine
1/4 lb. finely-chopped liver--be careful with beef liver because it is notorious for making cats barf, might be because it's too rich
1/2 lb. finely-chopped heart--if heart is unavailable, substitute 1/2 lb. meat and use 250 mg more taurine per serving
Calcium:
1-1/2 teaspoons ground eggshell
OR
6 tablespoons bone meal
OR
3000 mg calcium supplement
OR
3 lbs. ground chicken necks/backs
Veggies:
8 oz. bag of mixed baby greens or squash or combination, preferably organic, blenderized to a pulp
Supplements (qty. per cat per day day EXCEPT for vit. E):
1/4 teaspoon kelp/dulse powder OR 1/4 teaspoon nutritional yeast
250 mg taurine
1000 mg Salmon oil OR 1/2 teaspoon plant EFA
400 IU vitamin E per cat once a week
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Re: Raw Food Recipes
03/11Oh yeah, and a note about serving size: a 10-lb. cat will typically eat about 6 to 8 oz. (generally about 1/2 - 3/4 cup) of food a day. I recommend feeding the kitties twice a day, more often if feasible, and let them eat as much as they want.
Also, because of my itchy submit finger, here are the instructions for mixing the recipe above. Are you ready? Because it's pretty complicated.
1. Mix together the meat, calcium and veggies in a large bowl. Mash everything so it's well-mixed.
2. Divide into serving-size portions and store in baggies or those little handy disposable-yet-reusable plastic containers. Freeze.
3. Remember to allow 24 hours for each serving to thaw in the fridge, or the cats will have to wait an extra 1/2 hour as you thaw the food out in a warm water bath.
4. Mix the supplements in with each feeding.
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Re: Raw Food Recipes
03/11Recipe no. 2 is loosely based on the Feline Future recipe and was refined somewhat by Michelle Bernard of blakkatz.com. There are two variations to this recipe: one with raw bone (requires either buying whole ground prey or grinding whole prey yourself), and one without. I recommend that you not feed this too regularly because there are possible issues with psyllium seed husk and B vitamin absorption. I'd also ignore the advice about getting rid of the skin and extra fat; the people who advocate this diet are of the "cats need lean meat" school of thought which I don't agree with because from everything I've read, cats thrive on a high-fat diet.
Anyway, the PDF file is available here: www.catfood.catnutrition.org/Cat....pdf . If you can't access it, just let me know and I'll be more than happy to type it out.
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Re: Raw Food Recipes
03/11OK, here's my kitties' daily meal plan. You can call it "Recipe no. 3" if you like. Serving size is per kitty.
Breakfast:
1/2 packed cup meat chunks and organs (about 75% meat and 25% liver, kidneys and hearts, heavy on the hearts)
Dinner:
2 oz. whole ground rabbit (includes everything except feet and intestines)
1/2 oz. ground rabbit giblets OR 1/2 oz. minced liver
250 mg calcium carbonate or citrate (to balance breakfast)
1/4 teaspoon kelp/dulse OR 1/4 teaspoon nutritional yeast
1 tablespoon veggie mush
1/2 teaspoon EFA OR 1000 mg salmon oil
250 mg taurine
Light sprinkle of Call of the Wild powder to balance the giblets/liver, and also because the cats like the taste
A few times a week: Egg yolk mashed into dinner.
On Treat Days (which happen twice a week), each kitty gets:
2 chicken necks, chopped into pieces
1/2 can high-quality wet food
I coat the necks with the wet food and let the kitties lick and crunch away.
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Re: Raw Food Recipes
03/13Not another recipe--but bribe foods! Getting your cats switched over to a raw diet can be tricky, and sometimes they need persuasion and good old-fashioned bribery. Some foods various people have had success with:
- Grated parmesan cheese
- Any cheese (my cats are particularly fond of cream cheese)
- The liquid from canned tuna/salmon/clams
- Canned clams or fish
- Nutritional yeast
- Kibble powder (basically pulverize the kibble in a food processor)
- Call of the Wild (made by Wysong)
- F-Biotic (ditto)
- Salmon oil
- Dabs of canned food
- Tomato sauce (an odd one, but it apparently worked with this one inappetant cat with chronic renal failure)
Sometimes a light sprinkle of Sweet Bribery on top is enough to get the kitties going (once cats lick something and decide it's food, they're usually happy to consume the rest of it), other times you need to take it slow and easy by mixing only a tiny amount of the new food with an old favorite, gradually decreasing the amount over the course of a few weeks. -
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Re: Raw Food Recipes
03/13Aw damn, I forgot the Ultimate bribe food: butter! If I'm not careful, Miss Picky Snit herself will hop onto a table and help herself to uncooked pie crust dough (the version I make has a stick of butter for each cup flour).
Minced liver is usually quite popular, ditto minced kidney.
Also those incredibly fragrant fish flakes you can get at Asian stores and also at pet food stores sold as cat treats.
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Re: Raw Food Recipes
07/06I've updated my feeding method somewhat, so I thought I'd record it.
I now give the Little Bastards their calcium shortly after their meat-only chunks meal. I cut up the calcium supplement in half (it's "Absorbable Calcium" with 50 IU vitamin D from Puritan's Pride, and is in paste form as opposed to powder) and mix the two little dabs with nutritional yeast. The cats love it. Hitler has learned to recognize the distinct "snip" of the kitchen shears cutting through the capsule and she's rightatmyfeetholyshitwhere'sthetastytreat and all excited. It occured to me that because I was feeding my cats only two or three meals a day, that I was likely inducing hyperphosphatemia and hypercalcemia by turns every day with the old method. I don't know if it's true, but the idea made me uncomfortable enough to switch the way I did things.
I've also started adding a human multi-vitamin/mineral supplement three times a week to their food. It's Twinlab's One-A-Day supplement. They get one capsule split between them during the evening meals. I engaged in a brief e-mail conversation with Dr. Susan Wynn, a vet who feeds her cats and dogs a raw diet but who's doing a bunch of nutritional analysis and finding that many home-made raw food formulations come short of certain minerals. This study is as yet unpublished. Anyway, she recommended adding Theragran or an equivalent once a day, half a tablet per 10 lbs. cat. I hate grinding up tablets, so I found a capsule with a comparable nutritional profile. I'm giving it a shot. I'm not giving it every day because these mult-vits are fairly high in vitamin A and D, and I'm feeding them liver and organ meats. According to my math, what I'm giving them now is not anywhere near the AAFCO maximum for vitamin A and D even with the capsules, though it's well over the minimum. But I'd still like to be cautious.
I'll let you know after a couple of months if I observe any appreciable improvement in their condition. -
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Re: Raw Food Recipes
11/01I stopped adding the vitamins a while back. I didn't notice any improvement in their condition, and I started getting nervous about the amount of vitamins A and D they were getting. It was still far below the maximum dosage suggested by the AAFCO, but it was still pretty damn high.
Right now, the only supplements they get are daily taurine, the occasional bit of nutritional yeast, vitamin E and the occasional fish oil capsule. Oh, and calcium with their boneless meat. They're doing great on this system so far.
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Re: Raw Food Recipes
03/06Hrmmmm...just wondering...does salmon oil = fish oil supplements (either gel-cap or liquid) that is available at vitamin shops or does salmon oil = a special pets-only oil made specifically out of salmon?
Is there anything bad that results from giving cats fish oil supplements (NOT cod liver oil, but the more generally labeled "fish oil")? What about, say, olive oil?
Thanks! I appreciate any input. -
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Re: Raw Food Recipes
03/30I'm bumping this post because it's really useful for those that are looking to change what they feed their pets -
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Re: Raw Food Recipes
03/31weren't there more threads with recipes? I went looking but couldn't find any.
Can anyone post links for recipes?
I'm making my first batch tomorrow. (sat)
wish me luck. (I tested some of the raw ground organic chicken thighs from hellfoods on Ms Sappho and she scarfed it down, but i fear Fafnir is somewhat picky about raw chicken.) -
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Re: Raw Food Recipes
03/31you know, you don't HAVE to go totally raw right off. You can cook the chicken (or whatever meat you're using) at first, and gradually introduce raw meat mixed in. Especially for cats already accustomed to it, cooked meat has a stronger, more appealing flavor. You can gradually get them used to raw meat by mixing it in with their cooked food in increasing amounts. I've read this many times, and I know it from personal experience. Kaya ate raw once she got used to it, and it took only about a week. Granted, she was pretty darn young when I did this with her. It might take longer with an older cat, I dunno. -
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Re: Raw Food Recipes
03/31Just remember to add additional taurine if you are cooking the meat. -
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Re: Raw Food Recipes
03/31How much additional?
Can you overdose on taurine? -
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Re: Raw Food Recipes
03/31at least 500mg of taurine per day. Maybe even more. -
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Re: Raw Food Recipes
03/31OK I made my first microbatch!
Tell me how I did pls. Its been real hard to figure out the correct ratios and quantities of stuff (and I'm a scientist so I should be good at this) because everyone's recipes and recommendations are different - recommended amounts of taurine differ by as much as 4x! same with Ca and Salmon oil. Its also very hard if not impossible to convert mcg to tsp... :P I had a bit of nightmare today so I wanted to post the recipe I made and get feedback from you guys, if you have time.
15oz ground chicken thigh meat (organic free range)
1.8oz chicken liver chopped
1000mg Taurine
1.5Tbsp Bonemeal
200IU Vitamin E (in practice became about 150IU because not all of the oil could be squeezed from the capsule)
5.3oz H2O
0.5 tablet Kelp (225mcg) - what's an mcg? (I've never seen this before in all my work here as a biologist)
0.5 capsule Vitamin B complex (each capsule contains 100mg of each B vitamin and 400mg folic acid)
0.5 tsp Psyllium
To each small bowl of food I squirted a rda of salmon oil (in a spritzer - one spritz a day) and mixed it in,
Good things: Meko licked his bowl clean. Sappho chomped slowly - ate half of it. fafnir ate half of it also but more readily than most wet food.
No one threw up!!! (yay)
Bad things: I worry that the type of supplements I bought aren't very well absorbed - I know this is a major issue with supplements and maybe i should have added more taurine.
Also - on the website recommended here there's a way to work out the amount of Ca:Phos in foodstuffs but I couldn't figure out how to use it, so I didn't know how to accurately figure out how much more Ca to add and anyway - it was bonemeal anyway - i figured I'd stick to what Candy recommended.
So tell me what you think. I will feed this once a day and do the addiction food for the other meal of the day.
Many thanks for all your help!
Mekachu -
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Re: Raw Food Recipes
04/01What recipe are you following? You should probably limit the Vitamin E a bit. See That Woman's OP on the supplement she added. Also, instead of adding so much taurine supplement you can replace some of it with chicken/turkey hearts. This will be more readily absorbed too. As for mcg it mean micrograms. -
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Re: Raw Food Recipes
04/01I am using That Woman's recipe above as well as the feline nutrition website - they both add alot of Vit E. I was worried about that quantity. thanks will go read the stuff more fully. I've always seen micrograms displayed like ug...weird. I can't get organic chicken hearts from wholefoods. I really want to find places that sell this stuff cheaply and locally - preferably as a ground animal diet anyway, not just the muscle meat. Thanks for the feedback. -
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Re: Raw Food Recipes
04/01It says above that the Vit E amount is once a week. But I don't know how much they're going to eat of this food tho - how long does a pound of food last with 3 cats? They're also eating the addiction possum food too so ease them into this new diet. -
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Re: Raw Food Recipes
04/01How much Vit E/day per cat is my question? Is it simply 400/7? -
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Re: Raw Food Recipes
04/01Yes, or you can just add it seperately to their food once a week. That's what I usually do. It's a fat soluble vitamin so it's not necessary for them to ingest it every single day. I usually make my cat food in 3lb batches. I then seperate the food into single-servings and freeze them in baggies. It lasts about a month and half, sometimes more. But I also have two cats, so I'm feeding twice as much. -
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Re: Raw Food Recipes
04/01aha! thanks. makes sense now (doh). can't quite figure out how much to give them on a daily basis or weekly even when i'm still feeding them the canned stuff. gonna have to make the switch soon tho, just won't inundate them with the new stuff just yet partly cos of the high amounts of E in it. thanks Ms. :) -
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Re: Raw Food Recipes
04/02Just a note: there's nothing in the recipe in micrograms. Milligrams, yes--micrograms, no. Micrograms are generally used only for some of the trace minerals and (I think) a few of the B vitamins.
Also, keep in mind that we're aiming for a range of nutrients here--complete precision is nice, but not necessary.
It's very, very difficult for cats to overdose on taurine.
Regarding calculating calcium: you always want to aim for a calcium:phosphorus ratio of anywhere between 1:1 to 1.7:1. Ideally, you want to be somewhere around 1.4:1, but a bit more or a bit less won't hurt the cat any. So relax. And you can always figure out how much you need to give by looking up how much phosphorus is in the meat you're feeding and doing some elementary math.
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Re: Raw Food Recipes
04/02Hey odderie,
Salmon oil provides a specific balance of omega fatty acids that can't be replicated by olive oil. However, most of the fish oil supplements will contain the same fatty acid balance as salmon oil, and can be fed to your cat interchangeably. I don't trust the "pet formula" oils; the pet supplement industry is even more poorly-regulated than the human health supplement industry. Feeding kitteh the same oil that's available for people should be just fine.
Cod liver oil as a supplement on top of a balanced diet isn't a great idea because it's so high in vitamins A and D (as you're probably well aware of, but I wanted to emphasize to anyone reading what a Very Bad Idea this is).
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Re: Raw Food Recipes
03/30For lack of time to make raw food, I've been feeding Pet's Pantry raw chicken which 2 out of my 3 love (from Earth Pet in Issaquah WA). It doesn't seem to have bone meal in the ingredients...a tad concerned about that. Anyone else feed that? -
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Re: Raw Food Recipes
03/30does it have eggshells or some other source of calcium? if not then I'd be more than a tad concerned. Calcium is crucial to electrolyte balance.
if the rest of this recipe you're feeding is pretty good (I'm not familiar with it), you can always add bone meal or eggshell powder to it if necessary.
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